♀♂ Part 1 manipulation double take on life dolor lumbar agudo

Sheri and I began a dialogue on men and women over a year ago when I asked her if she wanted to read a controversial book about women I’d come across in the 1980’s. I wasn’t trying to impose my personal views on her (which can’t be done anyhow :-), but was simply curious to hear Sheri’s take based on her life experience. I felt comfortable doing so because I know her to be a free thinker and a stickler for self-honesty. “The Manipulated Man” by Esther Vilar, a German-Argentine doctor, was published in 1971, when the women’s liberation movement was coming out full swing. Her book hit the scene like a molotov cocktail lobbed into the middle of a feminist street rally, and by someone who considered herself to be a feminine feminist.

She took on the diatribes of the movement and its rallying cry of oppression, and in unflinching methodical fashion, she tipped the sacred cows of feminism on their backs.

She argued that women in modern industrialized societies were exploiting the system, using their so called victimhood to manipulate men through the calculated use of sex, praise, emotional blackmail, and the promise rotoescoliosis dorsolumbar of romance. And that the primary value of man was as a worker, producer, and inventor of things which made their lives more comfortable. Suffice it to say that she enraged feminists and progressives, male and female, then and now, receiving numerous death threats over the years. I can remember some of my male friends, fairly conservative, who read it and thought she went too far. But for our purpose here, the book is mainly a spring board which got us talking about different things, and our conversation will be presented in 4-5 parts.

From my own experience, I agree with Vilar on the various ways women manipulate men. I do not agree her critiques apply to ALL women to the degree or callousness she sees as the norm, and Vilar does concede there are exceptions. I also feel that much of her heat was directed towards women of the lower middle to upper classes, particularly those of North American and European identity. And that she was targeting their complacency and then the growing stridency of their demands on men. In a number of countries, cultures, and socioeconomic classes around the world, women have it much tougher, especially so in repressive societies like the Taliban’s, rendering women little more than slaves.

First. Paul and I had this conversation a while ago. Like all things, I am changing and I am so very happy for that fact. However, and as a result, some of my perceptions have shifted. Admittedly when I re-read what I’d written, I was hernia lumbar l4 l5 shocked by the intensity of my own words. Today, though in content I may still generally agree with aspects of Ms. Vilar’s writing, there is considerably less emotion behind it. As much as we are free to express ourselves in the moment, we are free and even encouraged to challenge that position.

Secondly, please keep in mind, the value is in the conversation; to read, listen, consider, discern escoliosis de convexidad izquierda. That is the value. The value is NOT in the ability to convince. I am not interested in changing minds opinions, beliefs or having anyone think as I do. I am also not interested in listening to positions of defensiveness, coercion or otherwise. I am interested in looking at this topic with a delicate balance of personal experience, objective acceptance and love, compassion, and space for whoever has the speaking microphone.

So, if you feel offended, moved, disgusted, elated, or anything else when you read this conversation, I’d invite you to really look deeply at your personal reaction, any reaction, and try to know both on a feeling sense and through intellectual analysis, why you feel this way. After that I challenge you to go even deeper and ask yourself how it is that you feel this way.

I really feel and think this is the only way to move beyond all the emotional socioeconomic and political challenges we face today. We cannot start out on the premise to move, sway or change someone or something outside ourselves. We must start in our own backyards. We must know ourselves first.

I think she (Esther, the author) gives women a bit too much credit in their ability to manipulate a man so deceptively. I’d even go further to say a woman wouldn’t even have enough depth for such subterfuge. I suspect she remains largely unaware of her deeper motivation to keep a man around. She remains way too much of a child to be able to contemplate and understand the magnitude of her ejercicios para discopatia lumbar ‘decision’ to take a man and have babies. THAT is a huge part of the problem. Women are stuck in this childish idealism of the perfect family; husband and children. They really do, sincerely, desire a man and family! Not to be financially supported but to give them meaning and purpose and fill that ideal of love and happiness. In this respect, I agree with Vilar that women manipulate men, but I disagree with the reason why and their awareness of the manipulation.

I still feel this way though the tides do seem to be changing. It’s always an arrogant endeavor to assume we know what all are thinking. But writing is often based on generalization. And I think that is all we can do unless we are writing solely from a personal experience. Even scientific research extrapolates narrow pieces of data, sometimes with variations, to represent larger segment of the whole.

So what is different here for me personally is perhaps the judgement and criticism. I’ve used some really scathing language fueled by intense emotion. Though the opinion may have stayed basically the same, the energy has dissipated and the judgement has softened. For the most part, both women and que es escoliosis lumbar men who have not heavily questioned their own lives have only a very superficial sense of why they do what they do. That old saying of ‘If we knew better, we’d do better’ applies.

Meaning and purpose seem to be an extremely powerful driver for many people. And, it seems to me, having a husband and children remains a top priority for many women. All I am saying here is that I think for a lot of women the primary source for meaning and purpose lies in the man she chooses and then the kids they procure together. Not a ‘bad’ or ‘wrong’ goal. In fact it’s one that has a lot of heart. But, it is an unstable one left unexamined. And the challenges and dangers are extremely flammable for a partner that seems to be wired quite differently.

Paul: I didn’t comment on Vilar’s depictions of manipulation in our original conversation. So all of my comments presented here are current. I also want to second what Sheri said about a dissipation of emotion and judgment after time has elapsed. I used to get pretty riled up about being tarred with the same brush as all men. But now I look at it from more of an overview without becoming personally identified or invested in reaction or persuasion. Now it’s intriguing to trace the arcs and offshoots of how the relations between men and women have played out over almost 5 decades since the scale was tipped..

Sheri: In my opinion she’s almost equally scathing about men!! I think she gives them too much credit when she says men invent all these things for women. I’d like you (I am referring to Paul here) to weigh in on this but my observation is that men are first curious and exploratory. Give them any problem and they, for the most part, want to solve it. Not for a woman necessarily but because it’s kind of what they do….they are curious and do it for their own gratification first and foremost. Every other reason is secondary (again, in general), women, mankind, fame, fortune escoliosis dolor, etc.

Paul: I see it as a little of both, but our secondary reasons are opposite. Yes, in general, men ARE weighted more towards exploring and problem solving, but along with that, or I should say behind that, is a subliminal motivation to achieve some level of greatness so as to attract and win over the optimal woman. I may be in a tiny minority here, but I feel strongly this is the elemental motive for much of what men do, whether they admit it or not. There’s this great little indie comedy “The operacion hernia discal lumbar Tao of Steve”, about an overweight stoner who is able to bed women way out of his league by a Taoist styled philosophy he’s honed. It has three tenets to win over women. And it’s a funny example of how men could manipulate women, but usually don’t have the discipline to follow through on the first and last ones.

Inventors are still mostly men, who, among many different things continue to invent new and improved creature comforts, which I believe matter more to women than men. And if money is the overt motivation, then they are probably taking into account the fact that most of the purchasing decisions are made by women.

Sheri : I agree that women are HUGELY manipulative while at the same time being largely unaware of what they are doing. It is a very superficial manipulation for the most part. Meaning it’s almost all on the emotional level. It’s not difficult to out manipulate women if one removes this component, emotion, out of the equation……which, if men were smarter, would realize. However, they see the emotion…”problem”…..and get distracted solving it. IF they were REALLY doing it for the woman, they would be able to SEE the emotion as the manipulation and the solution would be obvious: PULL YOUR WOMAN UP TO A HIGHER, MORE MATURE, LEVEL OF OPERATION! This is probably the greatest proof that men are NOT inventing all this stuff for women.

I was a little shocked when I re-read my own words around this. But again, I remain in agreement with myself on this point. For the most part, I do think women manipulate first and foremost on an emotional level. It might be because men are so easily manipulated this way that women have never needed to dig deeper. If men were smarter, however escoliosis lumbar consecuencias, they’d know this. And if women were smarter, they’d know men knew and thus work harder. I’ve no doubt women would rise to the occasion.

At any rate, there seems to be a level of insensitivity and lack of understanding as to why each party is behaving the way they are. And more importantly, a lack of understanding and sensitivity as to why they themselves are behaving a certain way.

This is the last part of the writing dealing specifically with manipulation I’d like to include. It’s more from the personal experience which I think has value. I don’t agree or diagree with the author because I am a man hater, woman hater, feminist, non-feminist, but orientate myself on her writing, first and foremost, from my personal experience.

Paul: For myself, and I believe most men, an easily recognizable example of emotional manipulation is womens’ tears. We grossly misinterpret a woman crying as indicating some deep sorrow or other great emotional turmoil. Because, for most men to get to the point of crying, some major upheaval would be required. But I have been surprised at how quickly women can escoliosis de convexidad derecha turn the faucet on and off. And they have to know how it can disarm a man, who is often caught unawares, stupidly asking – Are you alright? Are you sure you’re alright? And I’ve been told by a woman or two that it’s not that big a deal when they cry. As one said, it’s just relieving the ‘cloudy water’ buildup so they can see clearer.

Sheri: For a woman, for me, to be truly seen, felt, loved, acknowledged as a woman (not for sex, or beauty or whatever other reason men amuse themselves with until they can be in the company of their preferred sex – men)….is something women, something I, value. So, this is a little along the lines of what Esther is referring to and I agree with. Women are dumb and rely on men for self value and validation. As you can see from my writing, I STILL value being seen by a man. If a man had written the same words Ester did, it would have affected me differently….it would have hurt my feelings. But because it is a woman and she is pointing to my shortcomings as a woman, one I agree with, it does not really affect me.